October 2004 PAC Minutes
Lord Byng Senior Secondary
Parent Advisory Council
General Meeting Minutes
Date & Time:
October 26, 2004. Convened at 7:15 PM
Location:
Lord Byng Senior Secondary School, Library
3939 West 16^th Avenue, Vancouver, B.C.
ATTENDANCE: _Jan Berney, Kirsten Brawn, Cindy Brenneis, Ken Cameron,
Michele Carrington, Robert Chiu, Frank Chow, Caroline Crowe, Brian
Crowther, Rick Downie, Louisa Flinn, Laurie Frederick, Terry
Frounfelker, Linda Gibbs, Claire Greer, Ian Karp, Elaine Knappfuller,
Gideon Levit, Noya Levit, Kathy Mukai, Elizabeth Ngai, Brian Palmquist,
Tracy Proke, John Robertson, Jane Scherk, Shahpar Shoai, Karin Smith,
Judy Thau, Phil Walker, Candace Watson, Bo Yang Xu._
_ _
SCHOOL REPS: Rob Schindel, (Vice Principal), Zoe Jordan (Student
Council President).
1. Minutes of the September 24, 2004 meeting.
/ /
/Louisa Flinn moved to adopt the Minutes of the May 2004 meeting.
Tracy Proke seconded the motion. Carried./
2. Business Arising from the Last Meeting
The discussion of the shortfall in student fees was returned to the
Executive for discussion. The Executive has produced a proposed motion
for approval of the PAC, as follows:
/THAT THE PAC:/
/ /
1. /Recommend that the Executive consider, in formulating its
recommendations on the allocation of ?wish list? funds, ways in
which the financial impact of the shortfall in 2004-05 can be
mitigated;/
2. /Recommend that the Executive continue to seek information on
the nature and scope of the shortfall and develop an understanding
of the reasons for it, whether this is a developing or a
transitory problem and whether other schools are having a similar
experience;/
3. /Authorize the Executive to prepare and distribute a PAC
newsletter describing, among other items of information, the
impact of the shortfall on the school and the options available
for families who are unable to pay school fees; and/
4. /Recommend that the Executive and the administration establish a
process to monitor and manage the development of any financial
shortfall from this source in 2004-05 and future years./
/ /
/Rick Downie moved and Linda Gibbs seconded the motion. Carried/
3. Principal?s Report (Rob Schindel)
- October has been a very busy month. 430 Grade 9 students
attended the Pacific Adventure workshop at UBC; these are team-building
exercises so that the students can learn to work together and resolve
conflicts.
- The Byng Arts gala is being held tonight at the Scottish
Cultural Centre with a black and white theme; 350 students are attending.
- Interim report cards are being sent out on the 29^th of
October and they include the Parent-Teacher conference forms (November
10^th ). There will be two sessions: 3:30 to 5:30 and 6:30 to 8:30 and
multi-cultural workers have been added to the afternoon sessions. The
term ends on November 26^th so the parent-teacher conferences are an
opportunity for parents to learn how the students are doing and help to
make sure that they are completing the term?s work.
- On Thursday (October 28^th ) there is going to be a
Collaborative Day in which the teachers will be strategizing with
respect to the Grade 10 curriculum. Grade 10?s are to come at the
regular time but all other Grades are to come to school for 10:00 AM.
5. 2004-2005 School Goal (RS)
- In April 2003, the teachers used a Pro D Day to develop
the school goal for the next year. It was decided to emphasize Social
Responsibility to promote a positive school atmosphere which will
stimulate learning. The three objectives (which are set out in the
students? Agenda) are: 1) to reduce the amount of theft, vandalism and
graffiti,; 2) to create awareness of social responsibility which will
lead to a safe learning community; and 3) to promote responsible
attitudes and safe behavior.
- the staff have been focusing on the Code of Conduct (page
7 of the Agenda) which comprises a good outline of the ?Do?s and
Don?t?s? with a view toward developing a more concise statement to
promote respect, responsibility and honesty. So a committee of staff
and students,in consultation with parents is working to develop a code
of conduct for Lord Byng.
- Lord Byng is sending a team of 3 students and 3 staff to
a meeting at the VSB tomorrow as part of the Social Responsibility Network.
- the administration and staff are reporting and tracking
incidents of theft and vandalism, there is a graffiti board and in some
instances students will be required to make restitution to the school.
- Language is another aspect. Staff are working with the
Grade 9 students to develop their language skills around resolving
conflict.
- The Grade 8?s had an operative program at Grade 8 Camp to
help with the transition from elementary to secondary school and help
the students to get to know one another.
- the Student Council developed a Dress Code and we are
working to make it more visible in the school.
- One of the parents asked whether there has been
discussion about the pressure that will be put on the Grade 10?s this
year as a result of the new provincial exams. Mr. Schindel replied that
they are starting with the collaborative focus groups and study sessions
that have been used in the past to support the Grade 12?s in their
provincial exams.
- Laurie Frederick asked if there has been a change in the
Grade 10 exams and Mr. Schindel replied that yes for the first time
Grade 10?s are required to write provincial exams.
- One parent commented that it was bad enough having to
prepare for Grade 12 provincial exams and now to have to prepare in
Grade 10 too.
- Jan Berney asked whether there was going to be an
information night for the Grade 10?s? There was a course planning night
last year in January and information was passed on to the parents and
there have been some changes since then.
- One parent suggested that if all of the information is to
come from one person (the Grade 10 counsellor) perhaps there should be a
Parents? Session before the new year.
- it was noted that all of the information with respect to
the requirements for graduation is available on the Ministry of
Education web site.
- Cindy Brenneis passed on her congratulations on the Dress
Code saying that she has seen girls go shopping with the dress code in
mind.
- Mr. Schindel announced that tomorrow night there was a
Grade 10 Parents Information Night and slides from Grade 8 Camp would be
shown as well as skits performed and discussion about relevant topics.
The Grade 8 counsellor and the school nurse will be attending.
- One parent asked about the morning announcements and Mr.
Schindel pointed out that because of the renovations which are underway
on the Office the PA system is only available for emergencies. Once the
renovations are finished they will be getting back to the morning
announcements.
- One parent asked how concerned should we be about theft
and vandalism? Mr. Schindel pointed out that there are two principal
places where thefts occur: the Boys PE changing room and thefts of
bicycles from the bike rack. He said that 90% of the time bags are not
locked up (in the changing room) and urged parents to remind their kids
to lock up their things.
5. Student Council Report (Zoe Jordan)
- Zoe reported recently the Grade 8, 9, 10 and ESL Reps had
been elected.
- She also reported that Clubs Day had been held last week.
The different clubs had set up displays in the gym at lunch time and
there was a good turnout. Lord Byng has a wide variety of clubs. The
Student Council provides some basic funding to help some of the clubs
get off the ground.
- Some activities are planned such as: dodge ball in the
gym, a pumpkin-carving contest (with prizes), a relay over an obstacle
course, a Krispy Kreme doughnut fund-raiser and a Hallowe?en dress-up
day on Friday (with prizes).
- Zoe noted that it?s hard to circulate information with no
PA but a student bulletin is read every morning and posters are put up.
- A Grade 8/12 event is still being planned.
- In November, one theme day a week is planned and hot
chocolate Mondays are planned.
- The first student dance is planned for December 1^st from
7:00 to 10:00 and the Student Council requests parent chaperones for the
dance. Two shifts of ten parents each are required (20 in total) from
6:30 to 8:30 and 8:30 to 10:30. Laurie announced that parent volunteer
forms are available on the Lord Byng PAC web site and they should be put
into the PAC cubby. Zoe said that there have been safety issues at the
dances in the past and that in addition to the parents there will be
police, on site security, teachers and administration staff present.
The dress code is going to be stapled to the tickets.
- One parent asked if the dances are limited to LB students
and Zoe answered yes; students must show their Go cards.
6. Lord Byng?s 80^th Anniversary (Karin Smith)
- Karin gave a brief introduction about the planned 80^th
anniversary events for 2005. It is planned to kick off events with
Swyng with Byng and try to get the alumnae involved. Karoin noted that
much of the organization will fall to the PAC as staff is short. Swyng
with Byng is considered to be an excellent opportunity to begin a major
fund-raising drive for the school, targeting the alumnae.
- a database of alumnae has been created and can be used.
We are looking for anyone with a background in marketing, PR, sales or
fund-raising to help out.
- a sign-up sheet was passed around.
- one parent asked what else was planned and when was the
anniversary. Karin replied that a school tea was also planned,
tentatively for April and that 2005 was the anniversary year.
7. Speakers Survey (Jan Berney)
- Jan announced that a speakers survey has been prepared and
asked that parents fill it in with suggested topics, direction.//
- Jan also announced that she was in the process of typing
up the student directory and if parents hadn?t sent in the directory
form and wanted their kids in the directory to please give her their
names and numbers.//
/ /
8. PAC Rep on the SPC (Ken Cameron)
- Ken announced that as we needed one more PAC rep on the
SPC so he was able to persuade Kathy Mukai to stand down as a member of
the Executive and serve as an SPC Rep instead. He asked for a motion to
confirm this.
- /Tracy// proke moved and Ian Karp seconded the motion.
Carried./
9. Treasurer?s Report (Kirsten Brawn)
- Kirsten displayed the Treasurer?s report for October on
the overhead (attached to these Minutes) and noted that we have received
$300 from the DPAC which do not appear on the statements and that we
have made $1,492 in profit from the Grocery Certificates this month
(7.25% return for October or 6.95% return to date).//
- Kirsten informed the PAC that the gaming funds have been
received ($23,840) since our last meeting.//
- She announced that on November 4 there will be a meeting
of the Wish List committee which will review the financial requests and
make recommendations to the Executive who will then make recommendations
to the PAC.//
/John Robertson moved and Rick Downie seconded the motion to accept the
Treasurer?s Report. Carried./
10. DPAC Report (John Robertson)
- JR stated that the first meeting of DPAC is on Thursday
(October 28) and Ken Cameron will be attending. DPAC is looking for
more members of the Executive (three positions) as well as parent
facilitators. These are volunteer positions to aid parents when they
have problems at the school level or at the VSB level.
/ /
11. Grocery Certificates (Tracy Proke)
- Tracy has the order forms with her and they are also on the
web site; the October orders are in the office and may be picked up by
students. Tracy said that orders are down slightly so please order more!
12. November PAC Meeting (Ken Cameron)
- Ken stated that it has been suggested that one of the PAC
meetings have a less formal, social component and that it be a pot luck
wine and appetizers with lighter business and speaker. Sign up sheets
are being passed around for the pot luck.
10. Guest Speaker ? Mr. Kamin, Teacher Leader of the Math Department
- Mr. Kamin spoke on what the Ministry of Education has
given us to work with and what we do at Lord Byng.
- This year the Math department tried the summer worksheet
which was included in the August mailout for the different grades in an
attempt to get the students to think about math before September.
- For Grade 11 Math (Principles of Math 11) Grades 8, 9 and
10 math are crucial to the course, also to Grade 12 math. More than any
other subject, Math is based on what went before.
- Mr. K. put a chart up on the overhead showing the
relationship of the three streams of math: Principles of Math (required
for university), Essentials of Math (or consumer?s math) and
Applications of Math (which is almost as rigorous as Principles of
Math). He believes that if you are strong enough in math to do
Applications then you should do Principles. He said that there is
tremendous advocacy for the Applications stream but the universities
don?t accept it. He said that the Applications of Math 12 exam is more
difficult than Principles of Math 12.
- There was a question from a parent asking why is there not
just one stream? Mr. K. explained that Math 11 is the gateway to
university. Students who want to be doctors or continue on in sciences
have to take Math 12. At one time the department tried to run Math 11
over two years but the program didn?t get the right clientele. He
believes that Lord Byng has some students who would benefit from that
program but LB doesn?t have a large enough population.
- The last wave of curriculum change was six years ago (the
Western Canadian Protocol).
- Lord Byng also has a stream of Enriched Math which leads
to AP Calculus in Grade 12. He said that it is difficult to select kids
for enriched math but there are some younger kids in the higher grades
in math.
- Cindy Brenneis asked whether kids were in enriched math
because they likeit or are they better at it? Mr. K. replied that he
would hope that they like it but there may be other reasons why they are
there.
- Mr. K. has tried to give extra help at lunchtimes but
there?s not much attendance. Peer tutors are there and there are more
if needed. He said that this is one of the best guarded secrets at Byng
(like the fencing club).
- His philosophy is not to keep students back. The goal is
for the enriched students to take AP Calculus at the end of their math
program.
- Seven years ago, Lord Byng offered computer math and he
had a session for the parents of Grade 10 students who didn?t pass the
first session. The parents were not happy. He believes that computer
math works if the student is motivated. Computer guided learning (Math
10) had to be taught using the Learning Equation software program. It
was self-paced and self-directed. Not many students signed up ? maybe
because they were not aware of the program. His vision was a
multi-level classroom with all students working at their own pace.
- Byng also offers modified courses such as the Horizons
program.
- In Grade 10, the students have to write the Math 10
provincial exam.
- Louisa Flinn asked for Mr. K?s thoughts on the importance
of repetition, which seems to be really important in math. She observes
that in school they seem to be racing through the concepts and some
children never catch up. Mr. K. replied that the math program is
curriculum-based. What is important? Very seldom do the courses
deviate from the curriculum. No one takes this on when course planning
is done, like slowing Math 11 down a bit which would help out some
students.
- In Grades 8 and 9, students are probably okay. However
Grades 8 and 9 Math don?t prepare students for Math 10 (ie square roots)
and even strong students don?t seem to get it. They?ve tried switching
the order of the curriculum. They have tried putting some trigonometry
in Grade 11 math because it?s huge in Grade 12 Math (and there?s no trig
in Grade 11 math).
- If the teacher is going on to a new concept and the
students haven?t mastered the last one then they need to seek extra
help. The system is not perfect.
- Terry Frounfelker asked Mr. K. what the role of the
calculator is in Grade 8 math. Mr. K. replied that they should be
melted down. That?s why students bomb out in radicals in Grade 10 math
because they don?t know how to do the calculations by hand from relying
on calculators.
- He believes that there should be no calculators in Grades
8, 9 and 10 because students become overly dependant on them. For
awhile the graphing calculators were mandatory (the TI03). Students
were using them for all the wrong reasons.
- One parent noted that his kids completed the math
worksheets and then were impressed by themselves for doing them. He
thinks that the worksheets are a good idea. He stated that if you want
the kids to do more things by hand then the tests should be changed
because they are not designed to be done by hand ? they are too cramped;
they need to be spread out. He used to redo all the worksheets because
it was impossible to do the calculations by hand on the sheets.
- Mr. K. responded that there are good tests and bad and
that teachers need more education on designing tests. You would assume
that teachers coming out of Education would be expert at assessment but
they?re not.
- John Robertson said that he liked the math sheets and he
wondered how much time is spent in September retraining kids on the
things that they have forgotten during the summer? Maybe something
should be offered in the summer so that kids can brush up lightly in
math, maybe the worksheets should be given out in June. Mr. K. said
that math is an unstable department as teachers are in and out on mat
leaves etc and it?s amazing that they manage as well a they do.
- One parent asked whether it was possible to eliminate the
fluff (if there is any) in the Grade 10 curriculum and if so is it
possible to emphasize the stuff that is most likely to be on the
provincial exam?
- Mr. K. said that they are supposed to cover the IRP.
Anything could be on the exam as everyone has different ideas about what
is important. He noted that the exams are worth 20% of the final mark
and are unlikely to change the final grade that much.
- He said that the exams will be entirely machine-scored.
John R. asked whether there is any leeway for work included and Mr. K.
replied no. He said that multiple choice exams are inherently evil
because some of the answers are distractors which persuade you away from
the correct answer. He thinks that there should be a written component
to all tests but he is burned out this year as he has large classes and
none of his tests are multiple choice which results in a huge amount of
marking. He believes that tests should probably be 2/3 multiple choice
and 1/3 written (by weight of marks)
- There was a question asking Mr. K?s opinion on girls
losing interest in math. She has a daughter in Grade 10 who has lost
interest in math and provincial exams are looming. Mr. K. replied that
(although this observation is not scientifically supported, but based on
the observations of a very experienced teacher) there is a theory that
if at the age of around 13 the girl is not in a good math environment
(good teacher) then she will lose interest in math.
- He believes that students enter high school keen and this
is pounded out of them. He says that teachers are weighed down by
students requiring more attention. He says that math appears to be not
very relevant to the real world and is probably boring but there are a
lot of things that teachers can do - but are they doing it, probably
not. The teacher is in charge in the classroom and it?s very hard to
know what?s going on. You hope that they get good teachers but for
every 7 or 8 good ones you may have one bad apple. What can he do? ?
Try to have department meetings and work on things.
- One parent asked whether he supported kids changing
classes. He said that officially he does not (this is a counselling
issue) that for the most part kids should stay in their assigned
classes. However if there is a real problem then yes.
- Laurie Frederick asked Mr. K. if he would prefer parents
coming in to speak to you (with the student) if there is a problem. Mr.
K. said that this is a good idea (to bring the student along) and that
it should be done as frequently as possible. He believes that the
Parent-Teacher interviews are a poor forum, as soon as you sit down your
time is up.
- He believes that if the student is attending class, doing
the work, asking questions, doing his homework and asking for help than
it is hard to understand how the student could be failing unless the
student is handicapped in math.
- One parent thought that peer tutoring was a great idea ?
how can we make it sell better? Mr. K. said that Mr. Kosman offers help
in the Skills blocks and before class and has peer tutors but they?re
not math specialists. Mr. K. holds them in his classroom at lunch but
finds that it is the strong students who attend not the weak ones.
- One parent asked whether if a Grade 9 student is taking
Grade 10 math would they take the provincial exam this year too? Mr. K.
said that he thinks that it makes sense to take the exam in the year
that you are taking the course. Although he said that last year they
did not have enough exams for the Grade 9 students.
- Another parent asked whether if a student in Grade 10 is
taking Grade 11 math do they have to write the Grade 10 provincial
exam? No.
- One parent said that her son finds Grade 10 math too
easy. Mr. K. asks the classroom teachers to identify the students who
really should be ahead. They have made up tests to help to identify
these students. He does not believe that any student should be kept
back. She asked whether she should talk to the teacher. He said yes
and failing that to him.
- John Robertson asked if the curriculum is not
university-driven then who is it driven by? Mr. K. replied the Liberal
government. It?s exam-driven not understanding-driven. Mr. K. said
that there is a lot of dissent. He is trying to be involved in changing
the curriculum but the wheels turn slowly. He hopes that the next round
of changes will be better. University professors are moaning that
students are prepared. Geometry has been taken out of the curriculum
(it used to be 12%). Usually students who don?t do well in algebra can
do well in geometry.
- Mr. K. said that this is a low time, it?s hard for math
teachers. He emphasized: If there is a problem talk to us, the teacher
first, then him.
The meeting was adjourned at 9:20 PM.